4 Watercooled Video Cards in Antec Mini P180 Case?

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dejacky

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
346
Hi guys,

has anyone tried running powerful quad watercooled video cards, like Radeon 5870's or 6990's in an Antec Mini P180 case? I've seen dual, but it almost looks like there is enough space to have quad h20 cooled cards with careful component selection. If you've seen a quad card setup like this, can someone please share a picture of it? :cool:

p180minmeassureslr6.jpg
 
[Top] : remove 200mm fan, pull the top beauty panel off with the chevron shaped vents. Pop the rivets that hold the 5.25 drive cage in, 4 rivets up top, 4 rivets in the front and 2 rivets in the back. Cut the top metal panel to get a thick 360 rad up top. Use a Koolance fan shroud up top to get a push and pull setup going. Becareful on the radiator choice up top, its going to be tight (front to rear dimension) depending on the size of the end tanks on the rad. i had to have a 1/2" of the radiator stick out the 5.25 bay opening, once the front door is closed, you'd never know.

shr-1020bk_p1-700x700.jpg


[Front]: remove the center brace with the guides for the drive cage. 4 rivets up front, and 2 rivets in back. you can get a thick 240 rad up front. push-pull will depend on the length of the graphics cards.

[Rear]: 120 rad. no mods.

You can place a pump/res combo in the bottom. Go single bay and you can get a bracket to put a 3.5" & 2.5" combo in the 5.25" slot, or you can do dual bay, and you will have to get creative and start mounting 2.5" SSD's the space above the power supply, to the bottom of the center divider plate.

rp-452x2_p1-700x700.jpg


I love this case, and have torn it apart many times to do creative builds with it. Its on my work bench now, being "restored" so i can do another build.
 
rpmucha23,

I like your hardware suggestions :). My concern is how would you power, lets say four Radeon 6990 cards while keeping power supply(s) inside the case?

The reason I ask is I'm not aware of any single power supply that would fit in the case and power all 4 of these cards (preferably overclocked).
 
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A 6990 is a dual-GPU card. You can only run 2 of them in crossfire.

You will not find any mATX board designed for 4 video cards. Your only choice is running two dual-GPU cards like the 6990, 7990, or GTX 690.
 
Tsumi,

The 4 radeon video cards I had in mind were for mathmatical computation, not gaming, so I don't need crossfire, nor 16x pci-e. Pci-e 1x speed is fine for my purposes :cool: .

I was asking because it appears like there is barely enough room to run quad radeon 6990's in a 4-slot pci-e mATX mobo if the video cards are converted to single slot water-block like the pics below.

Has anyone tried this? Also, what brand & model Radeon 6990 waterblock is the thinnest? :confused: (..couldn't find any solid "water block thickness" data online)

powercolorwchd6990_1.jpg
 
All waterblocks allow the card to be single space.

PCI-E x1 is likely going to become a bottleneck in transferring of data, in addition to the card not physically fitting. You're going to be limited to 3 cards at most.
 
Tsumi said:
All waterblocks allow the card to be single space.

PCI-E x1 is likely going to become a bottleneck in transferring of data, in addition to the card not physically fitting. You're going to be limited to 3 cards at most.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. I folded with three cards on an MATX board that only had 1 x16 and two x1 slots, I just burned the back of the slot down with a hot knife to allow the card to fit and they worked great. The board was cheap and older so no warranty to worry about. If he is doing something similar where there isn't a great amount of data to move around except when initially loading the project, there would be hardly any difference at all.
 
dejacky said:
Tsumi,

The 4 radeon video cards I had in mind were for mathmatical computation, not gaming, so I don't need crossfire, nor 16x pci-e. Pci-e 1x speed is fine for my purposes :cool: .

I was asking because it appears like there is barely enough room to run quad radeon 6990's in a 4-slot pci-e mATX mobo if the video cards are converted to single slot water-block like the pics below.

Has anyone tried this? Also, what brand & model Radeon 6990 waterblock is the thinnest? :confused: (..couldn't find any solid "water block thickness" data online)

powercolorwchd6990_1.jpg
Click to expand...

You won't be able to fit enough radiators into the enclosure to cool 4 6990's running computations. This is of course ignoring the fact that you can't fit a power supply in the case to power 4 6990's. Hell you can't power that with one power supply anyways, you need 2 because even a 1500W unit isn't enough power.

4x6990 = 4x375W = 1500W you need to dissipate. The typical suggestion for watercooling is 150W per 120mm^2 of radiator space for average performance. At best you could fit 3x120 or 4x120 into the case. You are looking at trying to dissipate ~400W per 120mm^2 which is way outside the bounds. Watercooling doesn't magically make all that heat disappear. It still has to dissipate the heat into the air.

Sorry you just can't do it, the most you can get away with will be 2 6990's.
 
Erasmus,

I appreciate your feedback. My idea was to remove the lower dual 5.25" drive-bay and fit a 2nd power supply down there and replace both drive cages with two 120mm intake fans with radiators there. So, given that power supply is adequate, do you think the following radiator & fan setup will adequately cool 4 Radeon 6990's?:

1. Phobya Xtreme 200mm Radiator - Version 2 - Full Copper in (Top location w/ original Antec 200mm fan below it in pushing air through it and out the top).

2. Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta single 120mm Radiatior as (intake w/ 2 fans in push/pull config located in top drive-cage portion.)

3. Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper single 120mm Radiator (lower intake w/ single push fan)

4. 30mm thick copper core Radiator with single-thin Fan in Push configuration to exhaust air out of the case. (I'm still researching what to get, which radiator do you guys recommend? :) )
 
Depends highly on the noise you're willing to tolerate and what fans you plan to run.
 
problem with the 200mm radiator on top is its going to be a very tight fit as is, not taking into account the size of the end tanks.

you may have to get creative and get a little extra surface area in there, maybe your willing to do something like this?

bkt-hx001_p4-700x700.jpg
 
If you're willing to externally mount the Rad you could look into a MO-RA3.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1722419
they have 120x9 and 140x9 sizes
The MO-RA360 (120mm) is 415x383x65mm and you could mount it on the side of the case. You would also have room to mount a few rads inside as well.
IMG_8169.JPG

IMG_8331.JPG


Do you already have the MOBO and Processor?
There are Server motherboards that support x2 PCI-e 2.0 at x8 + x2 PCI-e 2.0 at x4 so all cards would have more than x1 lanes. Plus they support ECC memory.
 
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Euro,

I'm still looking at possible cpu / mobo combo's. The intel server stuff looks pretty pricey, so it needs to be a good deal for me to commit to this. Do you have a good mobo suggestions for this setup?
 
I took another look at the server boards and it looks like you wouldn't be able to fit the cards due to electrical components being placed directly behind the x4+x8 slots on the board expect for an ASUS board that is close to $200.

Looking on newegg there are several 1155 and 1150 boards with three PCI-e x16 slots + One PCI-e x1 slot and plenty of room behind the x1 slot for clearance. They are all around $100.
 
Unless you plan on doing some serious modding, doesn't look like your original idea keeping everything in the case will work. Just doesn't have the rad space. Having said that, I'd still love to see you try :D
 
midnightrat03 said:
Unless you plan on doing some serious modding, doesn't look like your original idea keeping everything in the case will work. Just doesn't have the rad space. Having said that, I'd still love to see you try :D
Click to expand...
In the spirit of all you HardOCP Forum members, I shall try! :cool:

Okay,

how does this look as far as enough radiators to cool 4 radeon 6990's (or similar cards) for example?:

1. Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta Single 120mm Radiator - (80mm Thick) [rear upper 120mm exhaust location]
2. Phobya Xtreme 200mm Radiator - Version 2 - Full Copper (45mm thick) [Top 200mm Exhaust Location]

The case would also have 2 high-flow-cfm 120mm intakes fans sucking in fresh ambient air before it went to the radiators in the case.
 
200mm rad in the top is going to be a tough trick, if you look at the stock fan thats there, it pass through a opening in the motherboard tray. you going to have to hack it up good to be able to fit a rad+fan up there.

your rear rad idea should be ok, but the 2 hi flow fans in the front are going to be starved for air if you leave the little filter doors on or the front main door closed.

i have this case stopped to the bare frame on my work bench now, if you need and ideas, or for me to check measurements, just post here. i'm subbed to this thread.
 
I would suggest about 400k mm^2 of cooling area if you want your fans running slowly.
 
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I can fit the 200mm top radiator with some very minor modding and still retain the sleek outer Antec case appearance :). But, it will be a while since they sold out of the 200mm radiator I wanted..

Perhaps it's wise to start with two dual cards like 6990 or 7990 (or similar) as a test to see if a (200mm x 45mm radiator) [with ~134cfm 200mm blow-thru fan] plus (120mm x 30mm radiator with 120mm blow-thru fan) can maintain safe temperatures.

Worse case, I can add a dual 120mm radiator or 2 separate 120mm radiators to the intake side.

What is the quietest fluid pump you guys recommend if I end up going the quad radiator route?
 
Hey rpmucha23,

If I remove that divider between upper and lower 120mm intake vents, is it possible to fit dual 140mm intake fans (with reducer ducts)? It looks like a little over 10cm space between each intake fan, so that should give us enough room for dual 140mm fans right?
 
dejacky said:
Hey rpmucha23,

If I remove that divider between upper and lower 120mm intake vents, is it possible to fit dual 140mm intake fans (with reducer ducts)? It looks like a little over 10cm space between each intake fan, so that should give us enough room for dual 140mm fans right?
Click to expand...

Not without loosing the upper 5.25" dvd drive cage.

 
Thanks for sharing that pic rpmucha23,

It looks like it will fit with a single 140mm top side (with 140 to 120 adapter) and a regular 120mm fan below. I can remove the top 5.25" drive cage since I don't use it. Is there any easy method to remove the metal rivets you can recommend?
 
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You are seriously going to try to fit 4 6990's, 4 radiators, tubing, pumps, res, and a giant power supply inside that case? The inside of that case looks like garbage for watercooling, let alone the setup you mentioned. I would suggest you buy an actual case for watercooling and not use single 120mm radiators which are the biggest waste of money ever. A triple rad will cost not even twice as much as a single and has 3 times the cooling capacity.

And just so you know, I've used small cases like that for watercooling over the years, while they look good when they are done, they are a ROYAL FKING NIGHTMARE to deal with/maintain. Takes 5 times as long to build, and if you have any problems, have fun with that.
 
Use a 1/8 inch drill bit, and insert it into the middle of the rivet and drill through.


p180m1.jpg


p180m2.jpg


p180m3.jpg
 
Rpmucha23,

thanks again for you constructive contribution to this thread :). Sok0, I already have fit an Enermax 1,500+ watt power supply in the bottom of the case and that should be fine for 3 gual-gpu video cards, plus I can always add two 450watt power supplies in the lower 5.25" drive bays if need be ;) . On your point though, I think experimenting with 2 dual-gpu video cards first is a good idea. The picture below is what I had in mind. So, now the question I ask all "ye" watercooling gurus, is what single 5.25" bay reservoir-pump combo is the quietest? Since it will be at the top of the case and closest to the user's ear, I need it as quiet as possible.

97d4b4de_DSC01664B.jpeg
 
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Your fans are going to be far louder than the pump will ever be to keep temps in control for a system like that with what you're proposing.
 
if single bay and if the blocks aren't restrictive as crap, i'd go with this but if you still plan on fitting in another 2 dual GPU's i'd stick with what I previously linked.

EDIT: Weren't you going to put a 2x120 rad in the front also? why just the 200mm rad and a single 120mm?
 
I have 2 high-flow intake fans, so I was curious to see how it would perform with 2 radiators in exhaust mode with two un-restricted intake fans. So, those 2 upper and lower drive-bays are completely removed as of now :)..
 
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You will not be able to fit a bay res / pump combo with your current setup. The 200mm radiator is too close to the drive bay. The Koolance unit for example extends beyond the end of the drive cage by an inch or two, and that doesn't take into account fittings on the end.

I think your best bet is going to be to get a Laing DDC variant for your pump, with a pump top reservoir. Then trying to mount this to the front intake fans with a bracket. You might have to remove the 5.25" drive cage to get enough vertical space.

Cooling wise, it isn't going to be great but it will probably work with just 2 cards. You really have about the same surface area (or less) for cooling the cards than you did with just the stock air coolers. Remember, all the heat eventually goes to the air. Watercoolings big advantage is being able to use much larger radiators than typical heatsinks which allows for better heat transfer to the air. If you aren't increasing your heat dissipation surface area, you aren't helping your cooling. The water in the system will help absorb some heat for awhile, but eventually temperatures will rise and you will probably see about the same performance as air cooling.
 
lilfiend said:
if single bay and if the blocks aren't restrictive as crap, i'd go with this but if you still plan on fitting in another 2 dual GPU's i'd stick with what I previously linked.

EDIT: Weren't you going to put a 2x120 rad in the front also? why just the 200mm rad and a single 120mm?
Click to expand...

I would not use any EK stuff, and I would never run any reservoir that has the pumps upside down. I tried it with a Koolance RP452 V2, and what a nightmare it was to bleed. And it never got quiet, there was always some air stuck inside the pumps.
 
Ok guys,

I have a Koolance PMP-450S Pump and my first water block, so what would be the best Reservoir you guys would recommend to make this pump + reservoir combo as quiet as possible?

I was concerned about a dual-bay reservoir that attaches to this pump because of vibrations unless you guys know of a good one? The bottom two 5.25" bays are empty, so might as well use them if need be.. :)

After some more homework, does anyone know where I can buy two nickel-plated copper AquaCompuer Aquatube's with G1/4 threads in the USA? Here is a configuration that seems like it would look nice in bottom of a white Antec mini p180:

038tw.jpg

aquatube_vernickelt_2.jpg
 
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Please resize pictures before posting them. Makes it incredibly difficult to read the posts.

If I am not mistaken, the 450S is the 24V pump that runs at a fixed speed. You have to use some sort of external voltage control to vary the speed. It will run at 12V. Here is a review of that pump which might prove helpful. In general, I think the best way to run "quiet" is to make sure the vibrations from the pump are not transferred into the case. Use some method of vibration isolation. Google shoggy sandwich for some ideas. The second thing most people do is lower the RPM on the pump, but as I said, the 450S will require external voltage control to do that.


I looked around for a nickel plated copper aquatube. Doesn't look like they make them anymore. What about the white Delrin version?
 
The best way to run the 450S quiet? Get a different pump. Seriously, that is the wrong pump to have if you want something quiet. You should have purchased the normal 450, it is plenty strong for your loop and it has a speed knob that lets you tune the speed to whichever one is least noticeable. (Sometimes the lowest speed isn't the quietest)

Koolance even says themselves they don't recommend the 450S for external throttling control.
 
Erasmus354,

is there anything quieter than the PMP-450 pump that would be sufficient for a 4-video-card loop? How about the pmp-400?

The 450s came with a package deal so it wasn't my first choice, but after watching a video of the pump, it didn't seem that loud either. My plan is to try some sound deadening material once I can record the audio frequencies and corresponding amplitudes emitted from the pump. If I cannot decrease the noise to "very quiet" levels by isolating the pump with foam and neoprene material and sound deadening sheets throughout the case, I'll try a different pump :).

As of now, what do you guys recommend as the best clear tubing that does not "plasticize" and create that discoloring I've seen on a lot of systems? Lastly, what "quick-disconnect" fittings do you recommend that provide minimal water dispersal and keep water in the rest of the loop? (these seem like a great help when adding blocks and radiators without having the entire water loop gush out of open tubing)
 
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I didn't like the temps that I saw with three 7950s at 1.1v with a 60mm thick 420 and an 80mm thick 240. I don't see how you're going to pull off four gpus in that case with decent temps without a large external radiator.
 
dejacky said:
Erasmus354,

is there anything quieter than the PMP-450 pump that would be sufficient for a 4-video-card loop? How about the pmp-400?

The 450s came with a package deal so it wasn't my first choice, but after watching a video of the pump, it didn't seem that loud either. My plan is to try some sound deadening material once I can record the audio frequencies and corresponding amplitudes emitted from the pump. If I cannot decrease the noise to "very quiet" levels by isolating the pump with foam and neoprene material and sound deadening sheets throughout the case, I'll try a different pump :).

As of now, what do you guys recommend as the best clear tubing that does not "plasticize" and create that discoloring I've seen on a lot of systems? Lastly, what "quick-disconnect" fittings do you recommend that provide minimal water dispersal and keep water in the rest of the loop? (these seem like a great help when adding blocks and radiators without having the entire water loop gush out of open tubing)
Click to expand...

As has been stated multiple times in this thread by multiple people, you simply don't have enough room in that case to fit the necessary radiators for cooling 4 6990's, unless you are referring to your 2x 6990's as 4 video cards (the pump doesn't care that your video card block is cooling 2 GPU's each.). Think about this for a second, the size of the 6990 and the size of the heatsink on it is roughly comparable to the size of a 2x120mm radiator. You want to cool 4 cards on less than half the cooling area than if the cards still had their air cooling heatsinks.

The PMP-400 (Laing DDC) is a good pump and should be quieter than the 450s (Laing D5 Strong). Personally I think the regular 450 (Laing D5 Vario) with speed control is the best all around pump for performance and silence. This is because the built in speed control lets you tune it to a level that gives you acceptable noise and performance very easy. A lot of people will also tell you that the D5 pumps are quieter than the DDC pumps (at least the newer more powerful 18w variants the 10w original was really quiet).

I wouldn't worry about the pump having problems with your loop. Even if you manage to run 4 video cards you can just run them in parallel, which lowers the restriction of the loop compared to serial. If you know Ohms law, you can treat a closed water loop just like an electrical circuit. Flow is current, pressure differential is voltage, and resistance is well...resistance.



I suggest you try out the pump when you get it (don't run it dry!) and see how you like the sound output for yourself. Many peoples opinions on sound are very different. You might find the volume perfectly acceptable whereas someone else will be much more picky. Also the frequency/tonal quality of the noise can make a big difference in the perceived volume of the pump.
 
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I just tested this PMP-450s pump at 12.84 volts on a bench and it's SILENT (to my human ear) if I hold it up in the air ~ 2 feet away from my ear. I don't see how I'll be able to hear any pump noise when it is inside the case and suspended in the air with a suspension mount that has no metal-to-metal contact.

Actually, I'm very impressed with how quiet this pump is during operation considering the flow output. After it passes the bench leak test, I'll test this setup with a dual GPU video card to see how it holds up to temperatures and upgrade accordingly. Considering the original Radeon 6990 fan is loud as hell and noticeable to my ear during idle, this water-loop should be a nice reduction in system noise. Thanks for everyone's input, please keep it going. :)
 
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